Wednesday, June 10, 2009

See you in hell!

On today's The 700 Club, Pat Robertson was asked what to do if your son tells you he's gay:

Robertson "I am not at all persuaded that so-called homosexuals are homosexuals because of biological problems. There may be a very few, but there are so many that have been made homosexuals because of a coach or a guidance counselor or some other male figure who has abused them and they think there's something wrong with their sexuality." ... "Well, I think you ought to tell him, 'Listen, son, you know, here's what the Bible says about this, and it's called an abomination before God, so I've got to tell you the truth because I love you'...I mean, if somebody's on their way to hell, they'll -- I mean, you've got to love them to rescue them."

I do know what the Bible says now about homosexuality, but the word abomination was added and not in the oldest texts of the book that we have access to. There's also a school of thought that "abomination" isnt the same as a Hell-damning sin by people much more learned and theologically versed then Pat Robertson. But let's assume he is right and the literal direct meaning is that homosexuality is an abomination as it's written in Leviticus 18:22.

Well then Pat Robertson is also going to hell, well that's probably not a shock to anyone. But the specific reasons shown in the above images (and no not just for his fashion sense).
Leviticus 19:19 Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.
So he's definitely wearing different fibers in the pictures above, including leather shoes which leather is a BIG no-no. And I'm sure he's eaten shellfish before and all kinds of crazy stuff.

Now enjoy one of the best moments from one of the greatest shows ever, The West Wing:


  1. Yeah, I still don't care for The West Wing.

  2. Yeah that's because you have no taste and you suck.

  3. "You pick and choose my friends"

    If you haven't watched the video "Proposition 8 - The musical" you should right now. Jack Black is one of the best Jesuses ever.

    Whats the plural of Jesus btw? Jesii? A Flock of Jesus?Also,

    Your favorite show sucks!

    Watch Better off Ted. One of Jamie and my favorite shows this year. It is coming back this summer, hopefully they will continue it. I think its a great take on corporate america in a sligthly science fictiony world. And the fake commercials are classic.

  4. I vote for a flock of Jesus.

    I think we need Joel to weigh in on this.

  5. I asked a guy here at work. He's going to ask his Pastor tonight at a church BBQ and get back with us.

  6. Penis + Vagina = Baby.
    Penis + Penis <> Baby.


    I don't believe Homosexuality is a "I was born that way" condition any more than I believe in excusing a murder for being born with violent tendencies or a pervert for perversion.

    Do I hate or dislike people who proclaim to be Gay? Not in the least. There are Gay people that do wonderful things. But I do agree that it is viewed as perverse in the eyes of God. I believe sodomy is a sin. I also believe a sin is a sin is a sin, and just as I have sinned, I am not more or less a person than someone who proclaims to be homosexual.

  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

  8. Haha, I like how you say "proclaim" to be gay.

    The same way people proclaim to be Christians, but lack Christian values. Or, the way people proclaim to be tolerate of others, but immediately degrade someone who is different.

  9. Jordan, it makes perfect sense if I don't believe homosexuality is a natural human condition. I didn't degrade anyone, I weighed in. If everyone was homosexual, there wouldn't be a future human race (unless you're ok with cloning, and then God help you). I think that's cut and dried enough for me. : )

    Just as people are addicted to drugs or food, I see homosexuality as a sort of sickness. I know people that have dabbled with or been full blown absorbed in it that have come out to live a straight lifestyle that would agree. They are wonderful people and I care about them very much and would never mean to degrade them. We have all fallen short in the eyes of God.

    Take it or leave it, I weighed in. : )

  10. From Joels "God Math" we can extrapolate the following:
    Baby - Penis = Vagina
    Baby - Vagina = Penis
    (baby - Vagina) + (baby - Penis) = baby
    Oddly enough though
    Negative Penis + Negative Vagina /= baby
    But Penis - Negative Vagina = baby
    And to really ramp it up.
    Negative Penis + Penis + Penis + Vagina = baby

    I think if I keep working at this math and combine it with my mathmatical theory of gayness, I can crack immaculate conception!

    So what have we learned today?
    As long as two gay people remove the penis from one baby and the vagina from another one. They can make more babies.

  11. ROFL I just peed in my pants a little.

  12. Of course everyone wouldn't be homosexual, that's just stupid. But, are you saying pro-creation is a reason someone shouldn't be gay? So, there are no infertile heterosexuals? Or, there might be, but they're gay.

    It's a sickness? Well, I'll keep that in mind for when I go to the doctor next, so I can get a Gayoscopy. And, I've known people who are "straight" but dabble with being gay, so that doesn't prove anything. And, I know gays who say their straight because they found Jesus. But, when I asked him if he hadn't found Jesus, would he still be gay, he said yes. So, he's still gay.

    And, for the record and what it's worth, I've never been attracted to females. I've never had thoughts towards woman that I have towards men. Never in my life have I ever thought I was straight. So, unless I was possessed by Satan at birth or God just really hates me...I've been gay my whole life.

  13. Hopefully one day we can divert some of that research money from all those other fakers and put some if towards perfecting the gayectomy.

  14. You don't go to the doctor to be cured of pedophilia, right? No offense intended, but I see homosexuality similarly (maybe not in severity or whatever). So if a man is attracted to children and always has been, who are you to say he isn't just attracted to children and that's acceptable because it's how he was born? There was a time when people viewed homosexuality with the same level of taboo - it was just a given that men shouldn't be with men and women with women. We weren't made that way. I guess depending on whether you believe in intelligent design, it may or may not be an easy concept to accept.

    Anyway, seriously. Weighing in. Not judging, not condemning, just sharing what I believe.

    God doesn't hate anyone. Again, we've all sinned, and a sin is a sin, etc.

    By saying your friend that found Jesus would be gay if he hadn't is kinda a no-brainer if you believe it's not a natural condition - if I was hooked on drugs and got saved and cleaned up, I wouldn't be hooked on drugs. If you believe it's a sickness/perversion, recovery is perfectly understandable.

    Weighed in.

  15. And I'm not saying procreation is a reason for anything. I'm saying it is evidence that God's intention was for Man and Women to procreate, not man and man or women and women. Predispositions that cause you to be attracted to men, in my belief system, are not evidence that it is an acceptable lifestyle in the eyes of God.

  16. I'm sorry if I'm coming off harsh or anything, I'm not meaning too. It's just I take it offensively, although, I don't see how I couldn't.

    Pedophilia isn't the same thing as homosexuality, that's two completely different things. So, comparing the two is kinda' funny.

    And, if God doesn't hate anyone, than what is the big to do about homosexuals. If in fact he loves us, than why do people hate us? Because, God is the only one that really matters, right?

  17. I'm not saying pedophilia is the same thing, I'm saying I believe that both pedophilia and homosexuality are behaviors/sicknesses, not natural conditions. I don't think less of you as a person any more than I would a friend that had a drug problem.

    The big to do is that I believe it is a sin. I hate sin, not sinners. I believe as a follower of Christ it is my mission to lead more people to the saving knowledge of him; not by telling them their behavior is wrong and they are going to hell, but being their friend, and showing them through my own testimony and trials that there is a better way. There is a reason why Jesus stopped the stoning of the Prostitute and didn't promote hatred during his short time on earth.

    I keep saying I weighed in because I hate these discussions. I hate making people feel condemned because, as you said, far too many Christians are known only for what they do NOT believe in as opposed to what they DO believe in.

    That is why you haven't seen me on here flaunting my beliefs about the issue. I never would have chimed in if Cory hadn't asked me to weigh in.

    Damn it, Cory. hehehe

    So I can understand your offense, I hope you get a little better idea of my perspective and other 'non-religious' Christians. We are called to draw people in with Love, not hate.

    I still love you man... Can I have your miller lite? : )

  18. Of course you can have my Miller lite. I don't drink. I'm trying to watch my figure. =)

  19. Wow did this place blow up with comments or what?

    Actually, Joel, I really wanted you to weigh in on what the plural of Jesus is. hehe

    And the God Math post was some funny ass shit. That's been the best comment in a LONG LONG time.

  20. Heh, I had to rewrite the math thing about a dozen times to get it the way I wanted it. Plus I had to actually work all the math out and make sure it was right.

  21. Ah crap, that was all you wanted? I get the feeling you always get more than you bargain for when you ask for my opinion on something Cory. Haha!

    Anyway I am always good for a comment explosion. You know me.

    I vote Jesi. And that was brilliant Jon. Sheer Gilmour goodness.

  22. I believe that heterosexuality is an anomaly of the human sexual condition. I think that you are a sexual being and capable of interacting in different sexual ways both mentally and physically on different levels. Like Kinsey posited that human sexuality isnt a this or that but a fluid range and can ebb and flow over time as well. Much the same way your tastes for certain foods may alter over the years, just not as fast or dynamic as that for some. And some people's sexual proclivities dont shift at all, or shift very very little.

    All religions are a result of a need to control human societal behavior. They all share some larger power or deity, etc. and a set of rules or conditions as a means to behave. And not behaving puts you at odds with the power and out of its countenance. When it comes to the Bible and homosexuality, since major portions of the Bible (such as Leviticus) were a rulebook of sorts for small tribal behavior you find things like dont eat shellfish. Because they werent good at keeping it clean and cooked right and it normally made people sick. A sick person is a drain on the tribe. When that bleeds into sexuality I think you have 3 issues to deal with; 1) Procreation, it's good for the tribe to keep producing more members, 2) total uninhibited sexual interactions can cause a spread of certain diseases and emotional strains on pair bonds within the tribe causing distracting discord from the ultimate objectives of the tribe, 3) sexuality can be seen as a problem when trading or interacting with another tribe and thus makes your tribe less appealing, so if other tribes frown on non-hetro pairings, etc it can make dealing with them more difficult.

    There are many examples from history of open and freely excepted forms of sexuality on various levels and thru social conditions or other means they have not conformed to the larger accepted hetro-pairing concepts and they function/ed fine. The true problem with varying sexual norms is when a morality judgment is applied and the other selections are made to feel degraded or sick, etc. Now you could look at my position and say that you could use that as a rationalization that says pedophilia is ok. Well I don’t think it's either ok or not ok, it just is. I don’t agree with its practice and condemn it for many reasons. But if a person says "I'm a pedophile" I wouldn’t have a problem with it as long as he did not act on it in anyway. I agree with out society's position that it is wrong and should be controlled. But no law will make him think differently inside which is where religion tries to lean on the mental aspect and exert a control there. As this relates to homosexual pairings in our society is that those pairings are between valid and consenting adults as described by our laws and the ONLY difference between a comparable hetro-pairing is that the members are of the same sex. So to condemn this is to ignore their love and basic human rights and legal status in this country to interact this way. To continue the drug-abuser analogy, even if the person is sober for years, he's still a drug addict. This concept aligns with Joel's concept of hate the sin, love the sinner.

  23. I would also like to add that my comment was way longer, but there's a 4096 character limit in comments and that makes me sad.

  24. What do you mean by it being ok as long as a pedophile doesn't act on it? Like he doesn't molest children? Should he be allowed to look at nude pictures of children? I don't get it... Either it's right or it's wrong.

    And as a Christian I think the 'once an addict always an addict' is a trap and VERY backwards from what God intended. I truly believe that Man, through faith, can rise up and out of ANYTHING. Saying you are an addict and continuing to feed this though process is very destructive. You don't have to believe in God or Faith to understand that we have authority over our circumstances and what we speak and believe has a strong impact on what we can accomplish. Watch 'The Secret', or listen to any motivational speaker for more on this concept. Reminding yourself that you're flawed and just accepting you always will be is just plain wrong thinking as I see it.

  25. Looking at pictures would also be acting on it and shouldnt be condoned either. Specially because the children were abused in some capacity to get those pics.

    I understand that's your belief of God's intention, but I just cant subscribe to the concept of knowing what God thinks in any capacity. Whether it's a volcano god that we have to throw virgins in or a God that says we can become a non-addict. If you take a person who's been on crack for 20 years, clean him up and wash him out and he's sober for 20 years. Then you give him some crack to smoke, there is no way that his faith in god alone would be able to stop him from smoking some more. But I understand that you believe that god can "heal", etc and that's cool. Just not where I'm at.

  26. I for one welcome our new Volcano God overlords.

    I can't wait for the replacement of the Holy Water by the door with a stack of virgins for ready tossing.

    Oh the after service brunchs will be so much better too!

    I for one vote that sexuality on the whole is a abberation, and that god meant for us to reproduce through budding. We just failed at it and went the easier route.

  27. Now there's an entire comment I think we can all agree on :)

  28. Ack, I just went to the main page and realised you used the same "I for one welcome our ____" line. weird.

  29. God isn't a get out of stupid free card. Of course if you smoke crack again you could get hooked. But to remind yourself constantly of your condition and treat it like a monkey on your back is 180 degrees from having faith in your deliverance from an addiction. I know this first hand.

    And again, this principle doesn't require belief in God. It's just the way it is and is visible in natural ways. I believe that God created us with the ability to dominate our circumstances, and the authority we have doesn't even require belief in him. All part of why God's love is so amazing, you don't even have to acknowledge his works to benefit from them. But if you do, you can live a much richer and more satisfying life.

    I guess it's just one of those things, that you can't appreciate until it 'clicks'.

    Yay for Budding. heh

  30. I knew it was eventually just going to boil down to you're either religious or your not. Because when it comes to arguments over religion and something else, the person who isn't religious wouldn't understand.

    The only problem I have with the religious aspect is that they have no right to tell me and/or prevent me from living my life, simply because they believe its wrong. I don't know anyone who is out picketing that Christians shouldn't get married because they don't believe in God. Therefore, religious believers (I'll say it that way so it covers all religions = P ), shouldn't prevent others from doing what they should be able to.

  31. I'm not talking about homosexuality any more, I am talking about the once an addict always and addict thing and words of faith, and how they work whether you believe in God or not. And I am not religious. Religious people are hokey and annoying and all about condemnation. I am not religious. Live your life however you want. But if you ask be where I stand don't expect me to not tell you where I stand. :)

  32. Where are you standing right now?

  33. Oh snap! he's not telling!

  34. Say what you want but in the end Bob is still a FIG.