Thursday, September 11, 2008

9/11 and Political: Open Thread

Chat away.


  1. To follow-up to Joel's comments on the last post about iPods and because I'm anal and like to try to keep things organized I started this thread.


    I dont think Obama has been shooting himself in the foot lately. I think he's been doing a great job of staying on message and not biting when the Republicans try to change the debate.

    That said it's a tricky thing, yes you have to respond, but you also have to then move back to what's important and what your message is.

    The lipstick comment is just an example of how the Republicans are trying to refocus the election on bullshit topics and take time away from talking about real stuff (not saying that some Democrats dont do this too).

    But this election needs to be about change as well. Not the change we want from the next President but a change in how we expect them to campaign and talk to us and answer questions and how we are going to respond to "the old way" of doing things.

    Campaigning in this country has got to change, it cant keep evolving in to just outright lying, out-of-context quotes, fear, hate and trumped-up fake outrage.

  2. The whole "lipstick" thing is complete bullshit.

    See for yourself

  3. Eck.. Can we stop making this an us vs. them thing for just a moment. Think about this totally unbiased. Be honest with yourself.

    I really REALLY don't care that the lipstick thing has been said before. It's a very old cliche, and I'm sure it's been used thousands of times in political speeches. So what.

    The issue is that Palin was introduced 2 weeks ago. One of the most memorable quotes was about putting lipstick.

    Obama either forgot this or didn't draw the connection, but I TOTALLY do not buy that this is "republicans trying to refocus the election on bullshit topics". If so, did they sneak in and prearrange for the crowd to start laughing and cheering halfway through the comment when they drew the analogy? Please... This was undoubtedly a what-the-hell-was-I-thinking moment on Obama's part.

    Look, It's stupid. I realize that. But in an election where perception is everything, this was a HUGE mistake. It's ridiculous that the McCain camp is asking for an apology. They should be thanking Obama for making himself look bad. They are definitely taking advantage of the opportunity, and I'm not naive enough to think that Obama's camp wouldn't do the same thing. Hasn't he been accusing McCain of questioning his Patriotism for the last few months?! Tit for Tat, I guess...

    I don't by any means think this statement makes Obama any less qualified to be president, but it certainly goes against the grain of the pristine image he has been portrayed with for the first part of the campaign.

    Now Biden is saying Hillary may have been a better pick. I realize why this was said, but again, it's like suicide. Nothing good can come of a statement like that in a campaign. Am I wrong? So again, what was he thinking?

    As far as campaigning changing, I hope you aren't holding your breath Cory. For a man that talks nonstop about change, I don't see much of anything new coming from Obama. He is using the same old political tactics that have been around for decades. When he doesn't want to answer a question, it's "talking about that issue isn't going to help the middle class that don't have any legs and ....". I'm not saying you're not seeing some of the same things from the McCain camp, but I do think Palin is being viewed as a real change, for better or for worse. We'll see what kind of change and what she's all about once the media frenzy calms enough for something that vaguely resembles fair coverage returns.

  4. You're just reading way too much into the what he said. In the next sentence he talked about wrapping an old fish up in a newspaper and it still stinking. Is he now also slyly referring to her as a stinky fish? I know the point you're trying to make in that sometimes politicians walk that fine line and make a comment that means one thing and then try to spin it that they are innocent and meant something totally different, but I honestly and whole-heartily believe that this is not one of those times.

    And if you think he did and logically look at it (as he also commented about it on Letterman) Palin is the lipstick in that analogy if that's what you think he meant.

    I'm not sure about the Biden comment you're referring to. I'd have to see it. Link?

    I'm not sure how you cant or anyone for that matter see a clear difference between Obama's campaign and McCain's or at the very least a concerted effort to not stoop to those some lows. I mean McCain's "The One" commercials - that's just pathetic and does nothing to elevate the debate, discuss a valid policy or position or treat the viewer as an adult that can make and adult informed decision.

  5. Cory.... I know what he meant. I know it had nothing to do with Palin. Give me some credit. : )

    What I question is how he got to that point in the speech and didn't think to himself, man that would be a really dumb thing to say. What happens when he goes to Iran and sits down with Ahmadinejad over a cup of tea and calls his wife an orangutan?

    Oh, and I was gonna make a great speech, but then I got high.

    I totally agree that McCain has been making some VERY low blows lately. The kindergartner sex lessons BS is really nasty. But Obama is doing the same things, they just aren't so obvious. He frames his opponent as attacking him in ways that have never and will never take place. Obama is playing with emotions, patriotism, and race. No doubt about it.

  6. Biden cant help it that he was picked. I think his comment stands fine. He didnt say he was a bad pick. And he can have his own opinions about the qualifications and desires of who his VP would be.

    I dont understand why Hillary isnt more pissed that her legitimate work and campaign is now being turned into a simple wedge issue and thus eroding what she's worked for.

    The Barack comment from 2004 ... he felt he wasnt ready then, he feels he is ready now. Simple as that. The question of "is he ready to lead" is so moot when we look back over the last 8 years at someone who was never questioned like that and look what he's done. What's it really take for some one to ultimately be ready to be President anyway. I'm not sure anything (short of being VP for awhile) would be able to fully prepare you.

  7. In the next sentence he talked about wrapping an old fish up in a newspaper and it still stinking. Is he now also slyly referring to her as a stinky fish?

    I'm pretty sure this is a vagina reference.. Let me make some calls and verify this.

  8. Just because I like to share.

  9. Jon, that is horrifying.

    So Cory, does it really sit well that your candidate's self admitted unreadiness has been resolved simply by his 'feeling ready'? Frankly, I think if Palin said this you would be ripping her apart on it. She made a statement pointing out how she was concerned about being VP because she didn't know what exactly it is they do every day and you didn't have a problem criticizing that. So what's with the double standard?

    I still think you are dead wrong with the Biden statement sitting well. Was he going for the little baby kitten feeling like Awww, that's so sweet that he is saying nice things about Hillary. If I was a disenfranchised Hillary supporter I would be thinking hell yeah you're the wrong choice. I just can't rationalize what he was hoping to accomplish by making this statement.

  10. And please spare me the explanation that Bush was experienced and sucked so now experience doesn't matter. That is horse shit.

    It's like saying you heard someone got trapped in their seat belt when they crashed and died so now you don't wear a seatbelt any more. It's ridiculous.

  11. OMG Joel cussed. :O

    If Gov. Palin says she's ready to be Vice President now then I have take her at her word. Since I cant disprove how she feels.

    I dont feel that Barack is ready because he now says he's ready. I believe in what he says, what he's doing, what he wants to do.

    I didnt say Bush was experienced actually I believe in 2000 and 2004 it was very much the opposite. I believe he was woefully inexperienced at running anything above a local talent show consisting of new and unique ways to have sex with farm animals. I felt like that then and I still feel like that. My point was that this topic was never brought this much attention in neither the 2000 or 2004 campaign to the point it is right now.

    The point is that you cant quantify experience beyond a certain amount and it becomes this "gut feeling" and it's pointless to try to prove someone's "gut feeling" wrong and it does nothing to move the real discussions we should be having along.

    Campaigns just cant keep going on like this. They just simply cant or we'll constantly end up with "actors" auditioning for a role and no one will trust them. The phrase that chills me the most in elections is when people say "well it's really a choice between the lesser of two evils".

  12. I remember Bush being the Governor of Texas before he was elected president. I guess being Governor of any state doesn't count as experience. ?

    And you DON'T have to take Palin's word for it. You shouldn't take any candidate's word in judging them for presidential (or vice presidential) candidacy, at least not by itself. Palin has a history of achievements. You elect a high school class president by what they say. The office of president of the united states is far too crucial a position to be handed to someone without a history that shows they can handle the pressure.

    Now I have to go eat some soap.

    I am not buying that anything has changed about Obama that makes him more prepared to be president than he was in 04 other than that he wants to be president now.

  13. I have to take her word and Obama's that they personally feel that they are ready. I dont know how they may or may not really feel.

    I think Palin's capable at doing work like this. And I think she's a liar and nothing she claims she wants to do will help Americans.

    I think McCain is capable at doing work like this. And I think he's a liar and a hypocrite who would sell his mother's soul to become President. And I dont think most things he wants to do will help Americans and the rest he'll screw up or ignore.

    I think Obama and Biden are both capable to be in these positions. And I think that even if they are able to accomplish 10% of what they want to do we'll be 100% better off then we are now.

  14. Dear President Bush:

    Please let me know the next time you are running one of your fantastic talent shows, I am very interested in these subjects and would like to come and watch.

    Thank you.
    Your buddy!

  15. BTW. Is anyone using dropbox yet?
    Its fucking awesome!

  16. It's like saying you heard someone got trapped in their seat belt when they crashed and died so now you don't wear a seatbelt any more.

    HA HA.. see Cory! That's why I don't wear seat belts.

    ='( And you make me wear them..

  17. Damn I was trying to get more incendiary to try to get Joel to cuss again and I failed. :P

    And Jordan, dont listen to Joel he's a dumbhead Republican face - you better wear your damn seatbelt. hehe

    *shakes fist at Joel*

  18. Man, refrain from wearing a seatbelt because it's uncomfortable or for the principle that you don't want to be told what to do, but don't be so ignorant as to thing you're more likely to get trapped by one than saved. That argument drives me crazy.

    Damnit Cory I thought that was where you were going with that BS post. You're the devil.